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Patent Attorney or Lawyer
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Hi everybody, I need a bit of advice from the reddit legal community on careers.
I'm currently training to be a patent attorney, and enjoying it. So far, I've enjoyed the litigative aspects of the job the most and if I continue in this career, I'd intend to pursuing this further. While I enjoy the content of the job, I'm concerned that I have a good few years (at least 3) of exams ahead of me (with no guarantee of passing) before I can really "start" progressing up the ladder and get my career going.
Despite how much I dislike that I feel this way, I also am concerned that I'm committing to put a lot of time into exams to become qualified and not get paid as well as I could if I chose a different path. I'm not necessarily chasing the largest salary possible, but I'd like to be well paid and, I suppose, well respected for my career.
I was wondering if anybody can advise whether attempting to become a qualified solicitor/barrister would possibly be a better fit. This would involve me effectively starting from square one with these routes, having never studied law at university. However, if I do well and perhaps get a little lucky, I could be a qualified solicitor/barrister before I would be a qualified patent attorney if I continued on the current path.
Can anybody compare the careers of a patent attorney vs a solicitor/barrister in terms of work life balance, salary, enjoyment etc? Any advice for my specific situation would also be really appreciated.
Top Comment: Solicitors and barristers are pretty much always going to earn more than patent attorneys. The advantage of being a patent attorney is the work/life balance and interesting work. Decide what you what. Patent work is also fairly steady and in demand, so there's less chance of being canned in an economic downturn. That being said, senior partners in the large firms like M&C etc. are on £200-300K a year, so there's definitely scope of earning big bucks in patent law.
European patent lawyer - questions about it
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Dear reddit lawyers,
I am in the 3rd year of my PhD in Biomedical Science. I already know I do not want to continue in academia. That's because I work a lot (9-10 to 18-19, rarely 17, I have to go to the lab most weekends) and I don't find it as rewarding as I thought it would be (not necessarily money wise). I have a baby on the way and I want to focus on my family, not my work. And it would only get worse with a post-doc and further, with grant applications and additional stress.
Therefore, I am interested in alternatives that would make use of my training. Looking around I found some articles on European Patent Lawyers. This looks like something I may like doing, but I'd like to ask someone who does this a couple of questions.
First of all, do you like what you're doing? Is it fulfilling? If you had to, would you choose the same path again?
Second, can you please advise me on books/courses i should read/take? I should mention i now live in the Netherlands. So books for now would be best.
What else is an important piece of information that you think i should know?
Thank you in advance!
Top Comment:
I can't speak to the system in the Netherlands, but in Germany the road to being a full patent attorney is quite long - comparable to another PhD in terms of length and difficulty. First, to be admitted to the EPO, you need 3 years of practical experience under a trained patent attorney. You also need a 2-3 year law degree to be considered an attorney.
http://www.epo.org/learning-events/eqe/admission.html
What is it like to be a patent attorney?
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I have a chemical engineering degree and am thinking of going to a law school. What is the pay and day of life being a patent attorney? Would you say it is better than being an engineer? What do the pay and working hours look like? Is a remote working a thing for patent attorneys?
Top Comment: The first few years can be brutal (I kept a sleeping bag in the office). Then once you become efficient and independent, it’s mostly smooth sailing with a rogue wave here and there. edit: this is for patent prosecution
Leaving patent law, some goodbye notes
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I’m writing this as my “farewell” note to patent law. I suppose this can double as a warning to life sciences majors considering patent law. I write this not to complain, I was aware of the risks I took when I went to law school, but I did want to share my experience and some parting thoughts.
Not looking for advice, not looking for sympathy. I tried everything and I’m the type of person that knows when to walk away. Please try not to be rude about my writing. I’m not drafting a brief here I’m writing stream of consciousness.
In undergrad, I wasn’t the brightest. I partied a little too much, didn’t take school seriously, and I screwed up. Went to the University of Texas at Austin, walked away with a 3.3 and a bachelor’s in biology.
Long story short, heard I could maybe turn it around in law school, the legal field needed patent attorneys, apparently they’re always in demand. I took a gap year between undergrad and law school and passed the patent bar right before I started my first semester of law school.
It should be noted that my awful GPA didn’t get me anywhere, I ended up going to a tier 3 law school. PLEASE. PLEASE listen to people when they tell you not to go to a low tier law school. When they say the employment prospects are dismal, they mean it. You hear of success stories, but generally the people working at big firms from tier 3 law schools have connections to those firms. Often their parents are partners, other times it’s a family friend. Occasionally the #1 or #2 in the class will make it, but it’s few and far between. It’s no joke, people are not exaggerating. Do not go to a poorly ranked law school.
You might be able to beat the odds and rise to the very top of the class, but remember the top 10% is the top 10% for a reason. There’s a lot of smart kids that go to law school.
Patent law, like any field, is extremely competitive. Firms can afford to be picky, EE and CS are highly valued. Very few firms are interested in picking bio majors for prosecution positions. Dare I say, no firms are actually interested in hiring bio majors for patent prosecution jobs, at least not those from Tier 3 law schools. However, you might be able to land a patent lit gig at a big law firm. Remember that grades will be critically important for any big law gig, regardless of the area of law.
Some takeaways and things I would do differently if I could reset my life to the age of 18
- study harder during undergrad, major in electrical or computer engineering. Regardless of what you decide to do with your life an engineering degree can get you into any door. It’s easier to teach a computer engineer how to do business than it is to teach a business person how to do computer engineering. If you’re a young person and you’re reading this, please major in something engineering related. You can follow your passions of course, but your interests often change over time. Time marches on and technology changes the job market, your family plans change, etc. An engineering degree gives you an incredible degree of flexibility to adapt to life changes
- No matter what your undergrad degree is, get a master’s degree. Everyone has a bachelor’s, it doesn’t hold weight any longer
- If you’re a life sciences major considering patent law, and for some reason you are dead set on pursuing a life sciences patent prosecution gig, for the love of god get a PhD
- Score as high as possible on the LSAT, 165+, take multiple times if necessary
- DO NOT GO TO A LAW SCHOOL RANKED OUTSIDE OF THE TOP 50 PLEASE I BEG YOU
- 1L is everything, sacrifice everything you can to get to the top of the class. Of course, if you’re in a T14 school with an Ee degree your mileage will vary.
- Do not believe for one second that your future is secured because you’re on the patent law track. All it takes is one firm to offer you, but until you sign that offer, assume you will be unemployed and nobody is interested in you. Don’t put too much weight into interviews
- Listen to the people in this thread, they’re a little snobby sometimes but they’re right. I learned the hard way.
- Be honest with yourself
- If you come out on top, celebrate, be proud, but be humble. People will like you more and that goes a long way in this profession.
My future plans: lucky enough to have some money saved. Also have a great friend in a similar situation, we’re developing a plan to launch a law firm after school. Areas of practice will include personal injury, family law, and criminal law. I’ll maintain a patent pros practice on the side but don’t anticipate I’ll make any income from that.
Academic resume:
- UT Austin Bio 3.3 GPA
- Tier 3 law school 3.2, top 23% (curve is low at my school to prevent transfers that’s why I’m ranked “highly” with a terrible GPA)
- Journal write on
- Journal board
- Dean’s list
Law school activities:
- 1L summer PI firm working trucking cases (couldn’t find any patent work, believe me I tried)
- 2L (fall and spring) Patent agent (electronics company, worked on simple devices and design patents)
- 2L summer Intern for US district judge, assigned to patent docket
- 3L fall (planned) Intern for different US district judge, also assigned to patent docket
Thank you all for your advice in this sub, you often told me things I didn’t want to hear, but needed to hear. Peace!
Top Comment: I hope your honesty helps other young people thinking about law school. The good news is you’re about to start a small law practice with your buddy. Once you’re doing your own thing, nothing will stop you from being a patent lawyer, if you really want to be. Your clients won’t care much about your undergrad so long as you do a good job for them! edit: I just saw you are still in LAW SCHOOL!!! You quit before you even begun. In any event, if you start a firm with a fellow new law grad, make sure you have some mentors you can turn to to help with the inevitable questions you are going to have and use the mentors to avoid malpractice!
Are patent lawyers this few?
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According to google, it said there are over 1.3 million lawyers in the US but only around 30,000 patent agents and attorneys. Is this a correct statistic? Why are there so few patent lawyers?
Top Comment: The patent bar requires you to eat three dozen eggs in 15 minutes, and not many people can do that.
Has anyone considered becoming a patent attorney?
Main Post: Has anyone considered becoming a patent attorney?
Starting career in patent law out of undergrad?
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Hello everyone, if I'm in the wrong subreddit I apologize. If so please redirect me to a better place to ask these questions.
I am going into my last semester of a B.S. in physics and applied math. My grades haven't been the best for a few personal reasons fyi (not in top 25%). I'm not sure how that affects my eligibility going forward.
At the very least, I'm hoping for a job (pretty much any job) in patent law or adjacent.
I'm not very well-versed in this field, as I've always planned on engineering, but I recently found out that one (maybe?) does not need a JD to start in patent law. I was wondering if that is true? I've read a couple conflicting articles on how to get started in this field, from simply applying to firms with no experience to going through PhD and law school to get a job as a patent agent. I figured it could be worth a shot to start studying for the patent bar exam, if I put in an hour a day starting now I will have ~150 hours in the mpep by the time I graduate.
So my question is: how does one get started in this field? Do I need to go to law school right away? If I start studying now (July) will I be prepared enough to take the USPTO exam in January?
Any advice is helpful, and I'm very open to hearing everyone's experience in this career and any "I think you should know" things before I try to go for this. Thank you all!
Top Comment: You’re correct that one doesn’t need a JD to start in patent law. If you want to be a patent agent, you only need a STEM degree and a USPTO registration number. Your technical background does decide your career prospects. Because you will graduate with a physics degree, you’re patent bar exam eligible and you don’t need a PHD degree. There’s also similar job positions called technical advisors in law firms who have STEM degrees but with no USPTO registration number. Many engineers work as technical advisors before they pass the patent bar. Many law firms will pay for your patent bar exam course and registration fees when you work as a technical advisor. The cost is not cheap if you pay for PLI ( with maximum group discount you’ll still need to pay $1000) and the exam registration fees on your own. If you want to become a patent attorney, you’ll need to go to law school. You’ll need to take LSAT, LSAT score and your undergraduate GPA decide your scholarship opportunities because law schools compete for the best numbers. I think if you’re searching for career paths after graduation, technical advisors is a good way to start. They’ll train you and you’ll find out if you like doing the job or not. I don’t recommend paying for the course and exam fees on your own.
How do I choose a patent lawyer
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Hi all, does anyone have general advice for finding a trusted and reputable patent attorney? I have an “idea” but very unsure of how to get this process started.
What is common/fair fees or charges for services in this initial meeting and subsequent meetings?
Also, do I need to bring some sort of NDA for the attorney to sign so I can protect my intellectual property/idea discussed? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Top Comment: A patent attorney stealing your idea would be like a bank stealing your money.
How fulfilling is being a patent attorney?
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Hello everyone,
I went through a phase for about 3-4 months where I was absolutely convinced by the concept of being a patent attorney.
As time progressed and I was completing the final year of my degree, I began to have doubts. This was mainly due to the idea that began to fester in my mind about patent law and its lack of fulfilment as a job. “In reality, what are you really doing to bring about a positive change in the world?”
I understand that different people choose a career path for different reasons, maybe this is something that wouldn’t even cross some peoples minds.
My question for you guys is, has being a patent attorney been more or less rewarding than you initially expected?
Would you say that despite this lack of fulfilment (from the perspective I have described) is something that is made up for through other aspects of the job?
Top Comment: For large institutional clients, not fulfilling at all. I feel like I am just pumping out paperwork for invention disclosures that will have virtually zero impact. It’s doing work for small clients (e.g., pro bono) that I get the feeling that I am making a difference.